Writers: could you clear up the cliffhanger? ("Tunnel" spoilers) Christopher Nietzschean I'm afraid that final cliffhanger shot in "Tunnel at the End of the Light" was simply not successful, because it wasn't at all clear what was going on. Now, my conclusion is that Dylan was looking out a hull breach in the front of the cockpit, that Tyr & Beka were missing, and he assumed they'd been sucked out into space. Some others who've watched the scene repeatedly have come to the same conclusion. But the way the scene was shot and edited makes that very unclear. Many have assumed that Dylan is looking through to another compartment in the Maru, and they're speculating all over the map about what he sees: Tyr's and Beka's crumpled, broken bodies on the floor... Tyr and Beka in a passionate embrace... a Vedran.... Instead of a cliffhanger, we've been given a Rorschach test. Instead of biting our nails, we're shrugging. Maybe you've already clarified this in one of the review threads, but I figure it needs to be stated clearly in a thread all its own, to compensate for the profound lack of clarity in that final scene. So Matt, Joe, Zack, Ash, could you please tell us what those shots were intended to show us, what impression we were supposed to get from them? Was Dylan looking through a hull breach? Are Tyr and Beka missing from the Maru? enTranced Squorm From Dylan's face it looks like he has caught Tyr and Beka at a *cough* busy *cough* time. Beka : Oh Tyr! Ravish me with your long bone spurs! Tyr : Beka!!! I have wanted you since you started cutting holes in your clothing this season! And those sexy garters you wear on your arms! Mmmmmmmmmmmmm! Beka : Take me now you big genetic superman, you! Dylan : Great SCOTT! *roll credits* enTranced MikeJoe Artificial Intelligence quote: Originally posted by Christopher: ..... Now, my conclusion is that Dylan was looking out a hull breach in the front of the cockpit, that Tyr & Beka were missing, and he assumed they'd been sucked out into space. Some others who've watched the scene repeatedly have come to the same conclusion ..... Same here. quote: ... But the way the scene was shot and edited makes that very unclear. I didn't think it was unclear. They could have pulled back from Dylan, through the whole, to show him looking out from the Maru, but they didn't. Oh well. quote: ..... Instead of a cliffhanger, we've been given a Rorschach test. Instead of biting our nails, we're shrugging. Who's "we"? 'Cause it's not me! G1223 Vedran quote: Originally posted by MikeJoe: Who's "we"? 'Cause it's not [b]me! [/B] MJ as was kindly pointed out to me. I do not speak for everyone But I agree with Chris ending was as not intenses. Rhea Purple Pixie I'd love to know, too. I've watched the tape, and am still not clear what he was looking at - but maybe that's what was intended. After all, it IS a cliffhanger. G1223 Vedran Actually Rhea according to a posting here back in Marhc or April they did not want to end the seasons with any more cliffhangers. I think there is a comment in one of the reveiws in headlines for May27th that voices the question as well. G-man Nietzschean I think that one thing that contributed to the eh-climax is that in the events leading up to Beka's bomb run we had the Derivas being (somewhat successfully) held off by Tyr. There was very little sense that they were in danger by their boarders. Had we seen a Derivas arm reach around and was pulling Beka out of her seat even as she's struggling to complete her attack run, and Tyr being overwhelmed, then the final scene, with Dylan looking into the empty, ravaged, but still intact cockpit would have been all that more effective. We wouldn't have known if Beka and Tyr had been captured, or killed, or simply went missing in action. All in all, tTatEotL had potential, but the execution was flawed making it a weak season ender. /s/ Gloriosus the G-man Himself Dylanite Magog I agree it was unclearly shot. But, having read the Starlog interview with Kevin I pretty much know what happened. Oh and SETH or somebody can someone PLEASE talk to Kevin Sorbo about blabbing cliffhanger spoilers MONTHS ahead of time? I mean really, this isn't rocket science or it shouldn't be anyways. CLIFFHANGER SPOILERS FOR SEASON THREE AHEAD: S P O I L E R S S P A C E In the interview Kevin says, that although it looks like they're both "gone" that they both "come back". Which indicates to me that what he's looking at is a gaping hole in the Maru through which Beka and Tyr have apparently been lost. Rhea Purple Pixie quote: Originally posted by G1223: Actually Rhea according to a posting here back in Marhc or April they did not want to end the seasons with any more cliffhangers. I think there is a comment in one of the reveiws in headlines for May27th that voices the question as well. Okie dokie. So it's not a cliffhanger when you end the season not knowing whether two of the main characters are dead or alive. Is there a new term for such an event I'm unfamiliar with? Cardie Artificial Intelligence quote:Originally posted by Rhea: Okie dokie. So it's not a cliffhanger when you end the season not knowing whether two of the main characters are dead or alive. Is there a new term for such an event I'm unfamiliar with? Contract negotiation contingency plan. Cardie jesseja Perseid that was my take on it too, cardie. always a good way to humble a star who gets too big for their britches. or complains too loudly. or when you need to make an example out of someone to get everyone else to toe the line. Andulasia Artificial Intelligence quote: Originally posted by G1223: Actually Rhea according to a posting here back in Marhc or April they did not want to end the seasons with any more cliffhangers. I think there is a comment in one of the reveiws in headlines for May27th that voices the question as well. Umm, link please? Because I don't remember anything being said on the board about *they* not wanting to end the seasons with any more cliffhangers . . . I'm pretty sure that Tunnel was planned to be a cliffhanger for a while . . . Andi Rhea Purple Pixie quote: Originally posted by Cardie: Contract negotiation contingency plan. Cardie ROTFL! Christopher Nietzschean quote: Originally posted by Rhea: Okie dokie. So it's not a cliffhanger when you end the season not knowing whether two of the main characters are dead or alive. Is there a new term for such an event I'm unfamiliar with? But that's just it. If the shot had made it clear that Dylan was looking out a gaping hole in the hull, then we'd have clear reason to wonder if they were alive or dead -- were they sucked into space, or captured by the Derivas? But those viewers who see the scene and just think Dylan is looking into another compartment on the Maru aren't necessarily getting that point -- that Tyr & Beka's survival is in question. Many of them just think he's caught them in flagrante delicto or something -- it hasn't even occurred to them that T&B's survival might be in question, because they can't tell that Dylan is looking through a hull breach (if indeed that's what he's doing). A cliffhanger doesn't work if the audience can't even tell whether there's a cliff. I'm not asking whether Tyr & Beka survived -- obviously they did, since the actors are back next season. I'm just asking, where was Dylan standing in that final shot? Was he actually looking out a hole in the front of the ship, as opposed to another part of the ship's interior? I believe that to be the case, but a lot of people believe otherwise, and I'm just asking the writers to clear up what we were supposed to be seeing in that shot. Mobius Nietzschean My impression is that Dylan was looking into some compartment of the maru. He would have to have a suit on and helmet closed to breathe if there was a hull opening on the Maru. My inclination is that there was nobody there, thus the puzzled look on his face. Rhea Purple Pixie quote: Originally posted by Christopher: But that's just it. If the shot had made it clear that Dylan was looking out a gaping hole in the hull, then we'd have clear reason to wonder if they were alive or dead -- were they sucked into space, or captured by the Derivas? But those viewers who see the scene and just think Dylan is looking into another compartment on the Maru aren't necessarily getting that point -- that Tyr & Beka's survival is in question. Many of them just think he's caught them in flagrante delicto or something -- it hasn't even occurred to them that T&B's survival might be in question, because they can't tell that Dylan is looking through a hull breach (if indeed that's what he's doing). A cliffhanger doesn't work if the audience can't even tell whether there's a cliff. I'm not asking whether Tyr & Beka survived -- obviously they did, since the actors are back next season. I'm just asking, where was Dylan standing in that final shot? Was he actually looking out a hole in the front of the ship, as opposed to another part of the ship's interior? I believe that to be the case, but a lot of people believe otherwise, and I'm just asking the writers to clear up what we were supposed to be seeing in that shot. Christopher, I absolutely agree with you. Honest! I want to know what the hell was going on too. Although I'd rather meditate on Dylan catching them in flagrante....hmmm.... MovieImp Purple Pixie quote: Originally posted by Mobius: My impression is that Dylan was looking into some compartment of the maru. He would have to have a suit on and helmet closed to breathe if there was a hull opening on the Maru. My inclination is that there was nobody there, thus the puzzled look on his face. The Maru was docked on the Andromeda there is a shot of it coming in for landing. He came on the ship and it was in a pressurized area with air. I never took the scene any other way other than there was a gaping hole and they were no where to be found. Shrug. MikeJoe Artificial Intelligence quote: Originally posted by Christopher: ..... I'm just asking, where was Dylan standing in that final shot? Dylan was just inside to the door of the cockpit. He went turned to his left and saw the hull breach in the cockpit's port side -- that is, Beka's left hand side when she's in the pilot's chair. quote: .... I believe that to be the case, but a lot of people believe otherwise, and I'm just asking the writers to clear up what we were supposed to be seeing in that shot. Would helped if they'd pulled out and you look in on him from outside the Maru. A shot of Dylan racing franticly through the corridors to the hangar would have been nice, too. Hibblette Nietzschean Wellll, If he is looking at a hole in the outer hull then cool. But...what I just thought of was this, and I've posted this to you Christopher on the AMB also. The Maru is docked on the Andromeda. A very well lit Dock. If there's a hole, why isn't there a contrast in the lighting? Granted it could be this would be something overlooked by the lighting department, but that's why I'm not so sure it's a hole in the Maru's outer hull. Oh and his actual words were quote: ...Beka and Tyr are our Kamikaze pilots. At the end of the show, it looks like they're gone. Okay-key words here are "looks like", hmmmmm. Perhaps Kevin is really adding to the suspense my friends. Edited due to stupidity on the part of the poster-lh. Rayhana Artificial Intelligence Well, as I said before, I don't think they are gone. (of course I could be wrong). First according to Harper and all, when they destroyed the tunnel they destroyed the ships and everything. So, if Tyr and Beka were indeed sucked out they would be dead. No EVA suits, everything destroyed, equals dead. We know they aren't. If they vanished to the other deminsion then the Maru would have been vanished as well since they were both on the Maru. Not to mention if they were sucked into the other place the tunnel has been destroyed, and there is no way to get them back. (unless of course Harper can build some super powered generator to re-create the tunnel). So, in my way of thinking, they have to be on the ship, somewhere. Of course for that to happen either there is no hole in the haul of the ship or the blast of the hole threw them elsewhere on the ship that was somehow protected. (a vaccuum or something) But since we are all debating that leaves me to believe that this was indeed a pretty good cliffhanger. (not the intensity of last years, but still.....) Hibblette Nietzschean ^Hee Hee! It's a thunker!!!!! Now I'm about to throw out a really big toad, get ready Lil you're probably going to react to this, but... What if the Engine of Creation is used. I'm sorry but, I've been thinking about this all day. Did they remove that huge heavy thing off the Maru? Hmmmm, I don't know guys, I'm really beginning to believe there was no hull breach. Dylanite Magog They better NOT use the engine of creation to get out of this. I expect that kind of lazy "let's wave a magic wand" story telling from Berman and Braga. Not Andromeda. Chipper Artificial Intelligence I'm confused as well. I hope they don't use the Engine of Creation. That would be an awful copout. Hibblette Nietzschean <> Yea well, I've actually upgraded my theory about the Engine and O and now Tunnel. The thing is, they had the ep, IHNAT so now what? But I'm with you I do hope the Engine isn't used as a magic wand, how about as a protector? Dylanite Magog How about they put it away, draw out a story about finding the rest of it over the life of the series and then have to deal with having to use it as a LAST resort at the end because it's SO powerful that using it has serious consequences? Better that than the boring and trite Trek kind of magical techno widget thingey. Rayhana Artificial Intelligence Ya know Lil that's actually what I was thinking. I mean, I can't believe they brought up the engine without a plan for it. So, over the course of the series they may discover the other parts and actually use it to destroy SoTA. I mean, Rosie would destroy the world ship, but since we really don't know what SoTA is and it was able to suck up all the effects of the Nova they did release, perhaps Rosie or anything like it won't actually destroy it. So, why not the engine? Hibblette Nietzschean Well it's already been set up as a magical techno widget thingee. Darn thing was flashing at the end of that ep. And IMO, it has already been used. Dylanite Magog Problem is Rayhanna that the Engine was RHW'S idea and I have a feeling, don't know why , that his idea for it isn't gonna be followed. That being the case I'd just as soon pretend that ihnat simply never happened. Hibblette Nietzschean ^<> But it did. Okay here's my thoughts, they didn't remove it from the Maru and onto the Andromeda, the reason, it was Beka's quest and the Maru belongs to her. So she keeps it on board the Maru. Cardie Artificial Intelligence Perhaps Tyr and Beka are there, badly burned in the fire--there was that awful scream from Beka. They'll get cured, but such a device would have left room (1) for recasting the part(s) if one or the other didn't come back or (2)(heaven forefend) for doing a little makeover on them as was done with Trance and Rommie. I know everyone thought I was paranoid, but I've always had a strong hunch that Lisa's return was far from guaranteed, perhaps by her choice, not Tribune-Fireworks'. Cardie Hibblette Nietzschean And that is a very good point Cardie of course I'm not sure if they were ever going to leave. But...perhaps Ryder wants her character to have a little more then what's been there. The eyepatch for example and well...it would set her apart from the others. Also, remember last year, it was iffy about Tyr and Harper and a lot of us just built a safe little haven reasoning insanely that Magog bites didn't necessarily mean infestation. Of course Mr. Anasazi being Nietzchean was able to go through extraction, Harper not so lucky. Tyr's ability to heal from burns is probably enhanced because of being a Nietzchean. Hmmmmm. Rayhana Artificial Intelligence Well Lil you might be right. But even though the engine was part of Robert's story concept, it doesn't mean it can't be built on. Perhaps not, but if it is, I think this scenerio would work. Time will tell. Christopher Nietzschean quote: Originally posted by Hibblette: The Maru is docked on the Andromeda. A very well lit Dock. If there's a hole, why isn't there a contrast in the lighting? Granted it could be this would be something overlooked by the lighting department, but that's why I'm not so sure it's a hole in the Maru's outer hull. Exactly. Our confusion is due to the poor composition, direction and editing of this shot. Instead of giving us a clear impression, they gave us something vague and muddled. And the critics are just as bewildered as we are. Michelle Erica Green said: "I found the final shot very confusing; I couldn't tell whether we were supposed to perceive from the angle of the shot that the cockpit had been blown wide open to space, or if Dylan was merely standing in the only open space not covered with debris." Kathie Huddleston at Sci-Fi Weekly said: "In fact, the cliffhanger is so unimpressive, viewers will be lucky to remember it at all when Andromeda returns in the fall." (These quotes are from the reviews posted in SlipstreamNews.) That's why I'm hoping a writer will come along and tell us what that shot was actually supposed to be showing. People can speculate all they want about what it might have been showing; but all this speculation would be unnecessary if we could just get some official word on what the makers of the episode intended (and failed) to depict. Dylanite Magog quote: Originally posted by Cardie: I know everyone thought I was paranoid, but I've always had a strong hunch that Lisa's return was far from guaranteed, perhaps by her choice, not Tribune-Fireworks'. Cardie Believe me I didn't think you were paranoid at ALL. I was worried as hell that she wasn't returning. Lil Rayhana Artificial Intelligence Why, what made you feel that way? Dylanite Magog Rayhanna I just um...did. Rayhana Artificial Intelligence Okay. I never thought anyone would voluntarily leave, not yet. I figured they would give it through S3, through the turmoil before they made a decision. I hope I'm right. I guess we won't really know until S3 begins, no matter what we've heard. Hibblette Nietzschean In regards to Ryder leaving I never thought that. And Christopher I agree with Rayhana if they were sucked out then we might as well call them Minute Maid and Tropicana. It doesn't make sense. They wouldn't be able to survive that. But the simple fact that we are questioning and speculating is what they want. We've already been given clues. "It looks like they're gone." That means at the very end when Dylan is searching through and they aren't answering, it looks like somethings happened and they aren't there. But.... Truly it is a cliffhanger and one to be mulled over for the rest of the summer. Dylanite Magog Rayhana I never said I thought it would be voluntary (that was Cardie). I thought Tribune was going to get rid of her and if they'd done it NOTHING could have made me keep watching this show so I'm damn glad she's still around. Lil Seth Howard Perseid This is what happened: After Beka and Tyr closed the tunnel, we find out that the Maru is fine and heading back....but on auto pilot...... Dylan rushes back to make sure that they are all right (since neither Beka or Tyr seem to have piloted back) ...but the Maru is empty. Beka and Tyr are nowhere to be found... kevinsfan Makra Thanks Seth. My impression after watching the ending several times was that the ship was empty and that there had been no hull breach. Ergo, where are Beka and Tyr???? Autopilot = more questions. I know nothing regarding spaceships but I am under the impression that “someone” had to set the autopilot and then activate it. Now we can assume that the autopilot may have been previously set to return to Andromeda. But after that gravity wave both ships were way out of position so: 1. Wouldn’t new coordinates need to be put into the autopilot and 2. Who activated it unless it is automatic when there is severe structural damage Again this is all conjecture since I know nothing regarding spaceships. [Edited to add: When there are so many questions IMO it is a cliffhanger] Yia tennyson Vedran The ship does have a low-level AI that just might be capable of doing such a thing. It's not sapient but you don't need that to navigate or respond to stimulous. kevinsfan Makra quote: Originally posted by tennyson: The ship does have a low-level AI that just might be capable of doing such a thing. It's not sapient but you don't need that to navigate or respond to stimulous. Thanks tennyson. That seems to explain it. Yia Marissa Pyrian I've said this before. Dylan isn't looking at a hull breach, he is looking down at something in a hole in the wall. Look at the camera angle, Dylan's gaze, and his expression. Hibblette Nietzschean And there are clues I believe throughtout the episode of what could have happened. These guys kept phasing in and out. They were there and yet not there. Hmmmmm. Oooooh AWS is really getting painful already. MovieImp Purple Pixie Well when the generator blew, Harper said they phased back out and were gone. Not necessary blew up but got sucked back. We know that one of the Derivas was fighting Tyr. So the question is when the generator blew and the Derivas got sucked back to their side did they take Tyr/Beka with them as we saw at least one of them on the ship and fighting with Tyr. Conceivable more were on the ship, perhaps grabbing Beka as well. They phased out when the power went and took them with them. Oh the possibilities.... Rhea Purple Pixie quote: Originally posted by Dylanite: They better NOT use the engine of creation to get out of this. I expect that kind of lazy "let's wave a magic wand" story telling from Berman and Braga. Not Andromeda. I thought what they got in IHNAT was a piece of the Engine. Of course, I haven't seen IHNAT - only read the scripts. And I agree - if they wave a magic wand, I give up. Goldielocks513 Pyrian I think 'what Dylan was seeing' is suppose to be part of the suspense. The whole show seem to be building and seemed to be still building when it left. Unless there is a great season 3 opener, we may be feeling let down. So, I am hoping the opening of season 3 will be great, as we are waiting along time for it. (OK, NO PRESSURE ON THE NEW WRITERS) In Dylan Hunt We Trust Lusankya Human Has anyone actually wondered just HOW the Dervias got onboard the ships? Their main ships were obviously big enough to go head to head with rommie so they had to be at least frigate or destroyer class. So smaller unseen scoutships? breeching pods? They jump out their airlock and land through the andromeda's and Maru's hull and magicly appear? Hmmm Anyone ever notice.. the ammount of time going on during battles.. After the first attack the Andromeda is getting swampped by upwards of 20+ ships... but they break off for at least 5 minutes while dylan and harper calmly discuss using rosie, trance and becka have a talk, AND tyr becka and Dylan have a nice convo on the Maru before Tyr and Becka take off.. hmm seems to be at LEAST 10 minutes or more of time that the Commonwealth fleet is getting smacked by 10/1 odds. Also.. on the Maru's final run.. as they were going in.. 10k ships were comming out.. noone took any potshots at them? you just had a single Dervias get onboard? Rhea Purple Pixie quote: Originally posted by Lusankya: Has anyone actually wondered just HOW the Dervias got onboard the ships? Their main ships were obviously big enough to go head to head with rommie so they had to be at least frigate or destroyer class. So smaller unseen scoutships? breeching pods? They jump out their airlock and land through the andromeda's and Maru's hull and magicly appear? Hmmm Anyone ever notice.. the ammount of time going on during battles.. After the first attack the Andromeda is getting swampped by upwards of 20+ ships... but they break off for at least 5 minutes while dylan and harper calmly discuss using rosie, trance and becka have a talk, AND tyr becka and Dylan have a nice convo on the Maru before Tyr and Becka take off.. hmm seems to be at LEAST 10 minutes or more of time that the Commonwealth fleet is getting smacked by 10/1 odds. Also.. on the Maru's final run.. as they were going in.. 10k ships were comming out.. noone took any potshots at them? you just had a single Dervias get onboard? I just assumed we were seeing some form of tesseract technology in action. G1223 Vedran Do not worry about how theygot that would be a question of continuity. Not a question for an hour of action. Lusankya Human WOO I know.. Anyone remember the Simpsons ep where Bart and Lisa become superheros and the Collector kidnaps Xena? When Xena was talking tot he geeks at the convention.. she said whenever some weird continunity error happens "Well a wizard did it" Its those wiley Vedrans "A Vedran did it" Rayhana Artificial Intelligence Lil and Cardie I'm glad neither of you were right about Lisa. I mean, I never got the impression anyone on DROM was going to be let go (actor wise that is). So, I'm glad your paranoia was unfounded. DWF Avatar Without trying to give out a story idea, I think it'd be nice if, they did what the old cliffhangers used to that is, go back a few minutes, and show us something that we did see in the first part, that explains what happened to Beka and Tyr. Now if this seems like a story idea, Saine, movieimp please feel free to delete this post. orph Human I posted this theory on another board, but I think it pretty good. The Maru was heading into the Tunnel when it dropped the bomb. Beka was pulling away when she and Tyr were taken to the other universe by that alien and perhaps another that appeared later? Remember the Commonwealth members getting kidnapped 20 minutes earlier? Anyway... The bomb hit and sealed the tunnel, sending the Maru back to Dylan's universe empty. Dylans sees a big fat hole. So the start of the new season will be Dylan trying to find them. Beka and Tyr will figure out a way to contact Andromeda and Dylan will come to the rescue again. Harper will have been working on his new dimensional teleporter and it should be ready for its first test by the time Dylan needs it. And yes, I think they'll rescue the CW members who were kidnapped by the Aliens too. Oh and for those who are wondering why they didn't pull back to a shot of Dylan staring at the gapping whole from the Exterior of the ship, my guess is that it would have looked too much like Star Trek Generations where Kirk gets sucked out of the Enterprise B. Just a guess. I'm glad they didn't do that because it make his last shot more dramatic. Dylanite Magog quote: Originally posted by Rayhana: [b] So, I'm glad your paranoia was unfounded. Just because it DIDN'T happen doesn't mean it was paranoia. Just...trust me. MikeJoe Artificial Intelligence quote: Originally posted by Dylanite: Just because it DIDN'T happen doesn't mean it was paranoia. Just...trust me. Trust you that Lisa will be fired? Just when I reached the point where I can, at least provisionally, accept the idea that enTranced liked TKDTD (or at the very least, didn't loath it), Lil has to start beating the Lisa will be fired drum. Rod Serling hasn't shown up at my place yet, but I'm keepin' an eye out for the bugger .... MikeJoe Artificial Intelligence quote: Originally posted by orph: .... for those who are wondering why they didn't pull back to a shot of Dylan staring at the gapping whole from the Exterior of the ship, my guess is that it would have looked too much like Star Trek Generations where Kirk gets sucked out of the Enterprise B. Just a guess. I'm glad they didn't do that because it make his last shot more dramatic. Most likely it would have been a time/money decision, epsecially with all the other FX in the story, not just the CGI space ships but the phasing aliens. They COULD have done it -- they went in through the window in BOTB, so going out a hole is no sweat -- but they didn't. Oh, well, c'est la vie. Cardie Artificial Intelligence MikeJoe, Lil and I aren't saying that Lisa will be fired, as she obviously wasn't. What we did fear was that she might not renew her contract for season 3 (and the end of S2 is clearly set up to accommodate such a possibility.) It's always a possibility when there are shake-ups on a show that there will be cast shake-ups, and my instincts tell me that if anyone might have gone it would have been Lisa. Fortunately things got worked out and everyone is back next season. Cardie MikeJoe Artificial Intelligence ^^ Whew! Thanks for clearing that up. No visits from Mr. Serling today .... Rayhana Artificial Intelligence Thats what I originally stated, that I didn't feel anyone would voluntarily leave. Then Lil indicated something about she was not talking voluntary, so I thought that meant fired. At any rate, I'm glad they are all back for S3. ArmourMe Makra quote: Originally posted by Cardie: Contract negotiation contingency plan. Cardie Cardie, you're getting so bad in your old...er....midlife Dylanite Magog quote: Originally posted by MikeJoe: Trust you that Lisa will be fired? Just when I reached the point where I can, at least provisionally, accept the idea that [b]enTranced liked TKDTD (or at the very least, didn't loath it), Lil has to start beating the Lisa will be fired drum. Rod Serling hasn't shown up at my place yet, but I'm keepin' an eye out for the bugger .... [/B] No no NO!!!!!! I was saying "trust me" that I wasn't being paranoid about my fears that tptb would get rid of Lisa at the end of season TWO. That she's in fact BACK doesn't mean I was paranoid is what I'm saying. Sheesh MikeJoe!!!! MikeJoe Artificial Intelligence quote: Originally posted by Dylanite: No no NO!!!!!! I was saying "trust me" that I wasn't being paranoid about my fears that tptb would get rid of Lisa at the end of season TWO. That she's in fact BACK doesn't mean I was paranoid is what I'm saying. Sheesh MikeJoe!!!! Uhhhhh ... Ok. Fine. Let's leave it at that .... 'kay? Nox deSilva Artificial Intelligence Um, I read this whole thread as the exact opposite. If anyone's got what it takes to leave the show, it's Mr. Cobb. The guy could be making a KILLING out in the market wherever he might go. And Andromeda NEEDS Tyr. Beka, they could do without (this, from a Bekaneer, who's been saying "killing Beka could be the most moving moment in Andromeda's history" for the past year). Hibblette Nietzschean ^Yea well the 'market' that you speak of is a strange alien creature within its own right. Spoilers ahead for eps after IHNAT s p o i l e r s I agree that Tyr is needed, think about it. If he did die when Trance said he did and all things happened the way we saw things happen afterwards... Who pulled Dylan in from the edge of the black hole? Who kept Beka pretty darn calm and focused during BOTB? Who actually stood up for the AI in KDATD and sort of pushed Dylan along the path of acceptance of the AI's and their free will? Of course this was supposedly out of order from what was originally planned but since they scheduled it to be next to last...If Tyr was not alive what happened to his son? Now regarding Beka...yea her demise would be most moving but...I would absolutely hate that. I think Beka is most important to the Andromeda also. With all the problems she has experienced throughout her life she still keeps a pretty positive attitude. I feel this is most important not just for Dylans sake but for her influence on Harper and Tyr. They both can be pretty dark in their thinking. I think Beka's importance is her strength of spirit. In last seasons cliffhanger Dylan was ready to give up on himself, but she wouldn't let him. No...I truly believe Beka is most important to the Andromeda. Of course this is just my opinion and well I know you are a Bekaneer from way back. Rayhana Artificial Intelligence I think all the characters are needed. They each bring something to the show that is needed Beka, is sensible, but not against kicking butt and gambling from time to time. She stabilizes Dylan and she is the one person he can count on to do the right thing in his absense. She is an outstanding pilot which they need and she thinks fast on her feet. She is Dylans balance. Tyr is strong, determined and a soldier. Dylan needs another soldier on board, thats been seen in various eps. Tyr also knows the different Neit prides in this time and Dylan needs this info as well. Tyr represents to Dylan what can be accomplished with the Neits and Tyr is a teacher to Dylan as to how to work with the Neits. Tyr represents, IMHO, Dylans tougher side and Dylan needs him. Harper is the engineer that keeps the ship going. Without Harper the ship would be nothing more than scarpe given all they have been through. Harper is the only person that Dylan can count on to keep his ship in tip top shape and give him the weapons he needs to fight the MWS and any other powerful foe. Trance is the probabilities person. While Rommie may be able to factor in scenerios that are logical, Trance can give the other side of this. She provide "good guesses" that work and he knows it. He has come to depend on her guesses an count on her to have them. She is also the person that makes those quirky statements that get him to think (especially now if Rev's absense). She is also the medical officer and she has certainly been needed for this. Rommie is his ship and well without her we have no show. Even if they got rid of the AI we would still have the Hologram, etc. So, IMHO they are all needed for what they individually bring. andromedanut Perseid quote: Originally posted by Seth Howard: This is what happened: After Beka and Tyr closed the tunnel, we find out that the Maru is fine and heading back....but on auto pilot...... Dylan rushes back to make sure that they are all right (since neither Beka or Tyr seem to have piloted back) ...but the Maru is empty. Beka and Tyr are nowhere to be found... Now that clears it up. Thanks Seth. Trancemogifier Pyrian quote: This is what happened: After Beka and Tyr closed the tunnel, we find out that the Maru is fine and heading back....but on auto pilot...... Dylan rushes back to make sure that they are all right (since neither Beka or Tyr seem to have piloted back) ...but the Maru is empty. Beka and Tyr are nowhere to be found... After seeing the ep, and reading what Seth said, I'd have to guess that the aliens pulled Tyr and Beka into whatever place they were taking the delegates.